horrid map-pool
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Fester
- Posts: 6528
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Re: horrid map-pool
from a play point of view i love it!!.. i think the problem for alot of people is that it lags like mad on older computers or for people who connect from outside Europe... high ping on a map thats buggy with a lower end cpu/gfx it has to bollocks to play..
Re: horrid map-pool
I can confirm that it has been set to a stock rotation. My 2c on omaha is its great when u have balanced teams and either has a chance of winning. But usually it's just red win, red win, etc. Much like avanti
Re: horrid map-pool
But like Avanti, it is incredibly winnable, it just requires some teamwork, which, for a game called TEAM Fortress 2, we seem to be seeing less and less of!MuG wrote:But usually it's just red win, red win, etc. Much like avanti
Re: horrid map-pool
I totally agree lazy. I do think omaha is harder to win even with a good team and good teamwork due to the beach being 1 space, no place to build ubers behind the safety of walls and corners. maybe in the underground tunnel, but it's far to far from the point and you must walk past the enemies spawnroomLazyEagle wrote: But like Avanti, it is incredibly winnable, it just requires some teamwork, which, for a game called TEAM Fortress 2, we seem to be seeing less and less of!
Re: horrid map-pool
If you consider the Engineer's viewpoint of Omaha beach, you are quite limited in places for building sentries that are hard to take down, so I have to agree with Toco. Spies enjoy sapping your stuff coz you've lost all your metal on repairing the damages that Snipers/Demomen/Soldiers have done. All your hope is being red and having an Engi subteam of good co-operation, but that's something I have yet to see...
Also, the blue spawn area is quite liable to camping by snipers and in any other way possible, especially at round start. Even though there are many "spawn doors", they are well covered by sniper towers, so it's just too easy to "lose your head", until you remind your enemies about the corresponding part of the rules that is actually helpful on a not-very-spawn-protected map like this...
There's a similar problem with the "width" of the map: it's so huge that a sniper could take you down from across the map, which is quite annoying when you're already too busy destroying a level 3 sentry protected by an Engineer ubered by a Medic, knowing that Demomen and Soldiers are flying in the air and a Spy is behind your back as well.
And right you are, Fester, the more open the map is, the more to draw on your screen, and the less taking advantage of z-clipping. Just imagine how laggy it can be on a lower end system showing nearly everyone's firing at full graphics! (Yeah I know, get a better PC...)
Oh and speaking of teamwork: blue players are usually busy trying to revenge the the red team having dominated them in no time.
Also, the blue spawn area is quite liable to camping by snipers and in any other way possible, especially at round start. Even though there are many "spawn doors", they are well covered by sniper towers, so it's just too easy to "lose your head", until you remind your enemies about the corresponding part of the rules that is actually helpful on a not-very-spawn-protected map like this...
There's a similar problem with the "width" of the map: it's so huge that a sniper could take you down from across the map, which is quite annoying when you're already too busy destroying a level 3 sentry protected by an Engineer ubered by a Medic, knowing that Demomen and Soldiers are flying in the air and a Spy is behind your back as well.
And right you are, Fester, the more open the map is, the more to draw on your screen, and the less taking advantage of z-clipping. Just imagine how laggy it can be on a lower end system showing nearly everyone's firing at full graphics! (Yeah I know, get a better PC...)
Oh and speaking of teamwork: blue players are usually busy trying to revenge the the red team having dominated them in no time.
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Pogue Mahone
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Re: horrid map-pool
ctf_2fort - Have a few Engi's, if you reach the intel your pretty lucky.
These games generally last for quite a while and the main battle space is pretty small, You gotta get past the snipers before you launch an attack.
cp_omahabeach - Engi on attack is useless, Heavy doesnt have a great influence, spawn is right next to the point. once you have reached the top it's just nothing but Spam and the red's will keep on hurrying men out of spawn.
ctf_aerospace_b4 - I have no problem with this map but the intel is pretty secluded.
ctf_geothermal- The height advantage on the last point makes it a nightmare for the blues and theirs so many passages for the red's spawn that it's near on impossible to block off their supply to the battlefield.
plr_pipeline -Great map in my opinion but theirs way too much spam, you'll need great momentum to win this one
pl_swiftwater - I like this map up until the 3rd point I think it is, you'll have to push the cart past Red's spawn, with blue's spawn being a mile off. From a defensive perspective it's a great chokepoint and their be really lucky to get past.
pl_goldrush - That major choke point really kills this map for me, even in 24man. Movement's really Restricted and im yet to see the red's push the blues back into spawn.
Just my analysis, I could go further into detail but than you'd have to pay me
These games generally last for quite a while and the main battle space is pretty small, You gotta get past the snipers before you launch an attack.
cp_omahabeach - Engi on attack is useless, Heavy doesnt have a great influence, spawn is right next to the point. once you have reached the top it's just nothing but Spam and the red's will keep on hurrying men out of spawn.
ctf_aerospace_b4 - I have no problem with this map but the intel is pretty secluded.
ctf_geothermal- The height advantage on the last point makes it a nightmare for the blues and theirs so many passages for the red's spawn that it's near on impossible to block off their supply to the battlefield.
plr_pipeline -Great map in my opinion but theirs way too much spam, you'll need great momentum to win this one
pl_swiftwater - I like this map up until the 3rd point I think it is, you'll have to push the cart past Red's spawn, with blue's spawn being a mile off. From a defensive perspective it's a great chokepoint and their be really lucky to get past.
pl_goldrush - That major choke point really kills this map for me, even in 24man. Movement's really Restricted and im yet to see the red's push the blues back into spawn.
Just my analysis, I could go further into detail but than you'd have to pay me
Re: horrid map-pool
What makes a bad map? Laggy, bad perfoming maps, seems a fairly easy point to agree. 'impassable choke points' 'unwinnable maps' Any map when you get stuck in spawn or at the same point for all of the round can become boring quickly, but that's often down to the teams. So what more can you do apart from making sure autobalance is working?
Some servers have player vote to scramble teams without an admin needing to start a vote.
Or even automatic if a round ends and one team's scores are x% higher than the others.
But then perhaps that's just unfair if you happen to be on a team that is working together to do well.
I think there will always be maps (or times when maps) are unwinnable because that is the nature of a server with quick respawn, no class restrictions and players or all abilites. But then along with all talk and lots of maps, those are some of the top reasons I like to play at FP!
A vote towards the end of a map on what's next....a random choice of 3 from the big pool of maps, yet even this falls down quickly if there's only a few players and big maps like Aerospace come up. The opposite I guess is having, say, 6 or 7 maps to choose and ending up with a split vote and a map that only ~20% people wanted on.
Maybe weed out the really bad/old/broken maps on the server and have a weighted-random map based on what people 'nominate' from the big list before the map ends. By weighted I mean have it so, say 3 people picked mapA, 1 person picked mapB and 1 mapC.....MapA doesn't automatically win but is more likely to be next. (Hope that makes sense, like a dice with the same number on 3 faces! Not certain but more likely result.)
I don't know the perfect solution, I just wanted to share some of my thoughts as quite a few people seem unhappy with what was voted for last time.
Took me ages to figure what I wanted to type so if anyone even thinks tl-dr I'll stick a melee weapon where the sun doesn't shine!
Some servers have player vote to scramble teams without an admin needing to start a vote.
Or even automatic if a round ends and one team's scores are x% higher than the others.
But then perhaps that's just unfair if you happen to be on a team that is working together to do well.
I think there will always be maps (or times when maps) are unwinnable because that is the nature of a server with quick respawn, no class restrictions and players or all abilites. But then along with all talk and lots of maps, those are some of the top reasons I like to play at FP!
A vote towards the end of a map on what's next....a random choice of 3 from the big pool of maps, yet even this falls down quickly if there's only a few players and big maps like Aerospace come up. The opposite I guess is having, say, 6 or 7 maps to choose and ending up with a split vote and a map that only ~20% people wanted on.
Maybe weed out the really bad/old/broken maps on the server and have a weighted-random map based on what people 'nominate' from the big list before the map ends. By weighted I mean have it so, say 3 people picked mapA, 1 person picked mapB and 1 mapC.....MapA doesn't automatically win but is more likely to be next. (Hope that makes sense, like a dice with the same number on 3 faces! Not certain but more likely result.)
I don't know the perfect solution, I just wanted to share some of my thoughts as quite a few people seem unhappy with what was voted for last time.
Took me ages to figure what I wanted to type so if anyone even thinks tl-dr I'll stick a melee weapon where the sun doesn't shine!
The Pyyyyro is a spy!
Re: horrid map-pool
alot of the time the problem with a map is that it wasnt designed for the instant spawn we enjoy on the servers, thats really what causes a map to be less enjoyable.
